Episode 183 with Sally Clarkson
An Environment of Welcome
SHOW NOTES:
Don't miss this extraordinary episode of "The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast" as Ginny Yurich and Sally Clarkson explore the power of hospitality, meaningful relationships, and the beauty of a life well-lived.
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SHOW TRANSCRIPT:
183 SALLY CLARKSON
Ginny Yurich Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. Sally Clarkson is back.
Sally Clarkson And I'm so happy to be back.
Ginny Yurich Why the absolute thrill? I just finished your book, Tea Time Discipleship Sharing Faith one Cup at a time. Absolutely loved it. So excited to talk with you about community and loneliness and hospitality. This book is beautiful. My friend Christine said it's her favorite one.
Sally Clarkson Really? Well, I'm so glad. It was fun having pictures and getting to do some recipes. And this. I never thought I would be that person, but it was a lot of fun doing it. Get it together.
Ginny Yurich Yeah, It's absolutely stunning. What a stunning book says. Got a lot in it. I was really impressed and it's just absolutely gorgeous. And then you have kind of a sequel coming out for mothers and daughters in October. So what a cool set of books. And I learned so much from the book and was really encouraged.
Sally Clarkson Oh, really? I'm so glad.
Ginny Yurich Well, I was really surprised. Sally So can we start off by talking about how I mean, look, here's from my perspective. We were at a conference together a year or two ago and the line to get to speak with you wrap through the entire building. I truly never seen anything like it. I mean, it went as far as you could possibly go to get a chance to snag a picture and to say hello. And then in this book, you talk about times in your life where you felt lonely.
Sally Clarkson Oh, my goodness.
Ginny Yurich And so I was really surprised. But also, it's a little encouraging if you can even say that. But to know that this is a common plight and you said deep, dark loneliness was a constant companion of my heart for many years.
Sally Clarkson Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, still, I mean, Clay and I are crazies. We're intuitive, we're idealistic. And so we have moved 24 times, nine times internationally. We've lived in this house quite a bit, but we tended to always go to places where we could have a new impact or work with new community to, you know, we had a new book and I think that we're living in such an isolationist time. I think it's just harder and harder if you have ideals and if you are trying to live a different sort of life to find that kindred spirit. And then when you add to that that you have a thousand kids, you know, and you're busy and you have things to do with them, it's just a little bit harder to muster. And I found that I was pretty much usually the person who had to initiate, who had to invite, who had to reach out to. So I wanted to write a book that would say to women, Can I give you an easy way to reach out, to develop friends, to really have a deeper sort of companionship or community with people? Because it's something that I've been doing for years, but it really transformed my life when I first learned about mentorship discipleship many, many years ago.
Ginny Yurich Mm hmm. And I think it's it should be encouraging to moms and families that are listening in that here you are. If you have a line snaking through the building to get a chance to say hello, that you also had time periods in your life where you struggled with loneliness and being in the position where you were the one that had to reach out. And I think that will help everyone else feel a little more normal if they're struggling with some loneliness.
Sally Clarkson You know.
Sally Clarkson I think, you know, you get a lot of letters, too. I know. And I get so many letters from women who just feel like their lives are wrapped up in a lot of responsibility, but not a lot of grace from friends who love them and get to know them. I know many years ago I was in a living in Nashville and I had started a co-op. I had started a kind of group of women getting together. And we would have a moms night out. And I would think, I am not going to go to this mom's side out. And then I would push myself to go meet over at the little hamburger place that we met because I would just have had a really hard day with one of my kids. And somebody would say, You think that's hard? And then they would tell about what their child had done, and somebody else would say, Well, listen to my day. And all of us would have been in the battle of raising children, you know, living ideals. And I nobody would have solved anything. But it was just knowing that I was normal and knowing that I wasn't alone in knowing that other people were fighting the same battles that I was. And I think that we need to be in the company of women who if we ever, you know, hopefully not have difficulties or have that difficult child or difficult marriage or a difficult whatever that we have cultivated by choosing to spend time with people, a group of people who can know us, love us, see our words, support us. So that was kind of one of my goals behind the book.
Sally Clarkson Mm hmm.
Ginny Yurich It's a beautiful book. I think one of the things that came up a lot and you just mentioned it, was that you were inviting. And there are a lot of people that ask and we get the same thing and we've got this Facebook group and it comes up fairly often where people say, I don't have any friends. Yeah, and how can I find some friends? And it's such a deep need, especially in the Mothering years, you really want to be able to connect. So you said time and time again in this book. That's why it's a really encouraging one to read that you would invite. And in fact, one time your invitation turned into the police showing up.
Sally Clarkson Oh.
Sally Clarkson Well, it did. It was so funny because, you know, I love to write and speak and teach and all that, but nothing I say is rocket science. Everything I say is pretty normal. And we started a group and all these women came. And then over a period of time, I would have between 100 and 150 women. And they would sit on the floor, They would sit on the stairs going, You can see right here. They would sit on the stairs going out of the room. We just had fun. They would come in about seven at night. I always had my meetings in the evenings with no children. Not that I don't love children, but I just thought everybody needed a break. And sometimes I would say, I'm going to bed now and just lock the door when you leave. You know, they would leave around nine or 930. But one day we got a knock at the door and the police said, You have way too many cars. If you meet again, it'll be $1,000 because cars stretch down the road. And this took years to develop. But we just loved being together. And it wasn't too often, but it was a time of gathering, talking, teaching, loving each other. And yeah, so I had to change to another place.
Ginny Yurich Yes. And then it went to 260 people showed up. So you wrote If I wanted a group, I would have to start it. And I had no special ability, no strategic angel to grow a ministry. We were simply available. And so that theme runs all the way through that you would invite that you would be looking for friends just to invite to tea or to invite over. And there's a lot in this book about hospitality, which was also really encouraging in talking about this concept of being home to one another. I had no idea. I never really thought about it. That hospitality and hospital and hospice all come from the same root word.
Sally Clarkson Well, right. It's basically to take care of to look at the people around you and say, I am here to help you with whatever you need. And I think that the old do unto others. I think that I needed someone to invite me. I have four of the most amazing and wonderful children, and at least two or three of them were on the spectrum, which meant they were really out of the box. And before I had my children, I'd never changed a diaper. I had no idea what obsessive compulsive was, you know, the clinically obsessive compulsive or some of the other things that my children had. So I needed a place, but I needed that. I ended up initiating for others as I needed someone to listen, to understand, to see my context without judging me, and then to say, I will walk it with you and I will come along the way. So that's what I did. I said, Come to my house, we'll have something to eat or drink, and you will help me put it together. And I, I never expected myself to do it all. And I would, you know, use a passage of scripture or tell a story that I had read that day or whatever, and we would just become to one another an encouragement in the direction of our ideals and also just a place. I remember one time I had this one mother said, I think I'm the only nano schooler in this group. And I said, Okay, okay. I said, Let's wait a second. I said, If you don't homeschool, raise your hand. In. Over. A third of the people raised their hand and then mother said, Well, I'm the only one who works. And and I said, okay, you know, who works in here, who has a job outside the home? And there are about 20 people. And so it made all the women go, Oh, we are coming together because we are all women who want to do the best job we can possibly do. And what we have in common is our love for this group, our love for God. I love our ideals. And everybody is welcome here. And I think it surprised everyone to know that they weren't alone, that they don't have to feel guilty for whatever choices they made.
Ginny Yurich What a beautiful thing. And I think pick up the book. You'll be prompted to be an invite her and to know that that is the answer. The answer is to be the end writer. And over time, relationships grow and you help other people develop relationships, which I think is such a gift. When you open your home and you have a group of 260 people, you're helping them facilitate without even stepping in. Just by having that environment, you're helping them to facilitate all of these different relationships. You have really fantastic ideas. Simple To create an environment of welcome is what you call it, simple hospitality throughout the. Book like bags of cookie dough balls in the freezer. All of these fantastic ideas, recipes for different times of the year, different seasons. And one of the things that you said that you do is you look for little treasures. So this maybe is Thrifting treasure seeking and also even special treats or things like that. Can you just tell us? That sounds so fun.
Sally Clarkson Well, I used to have these leadership conferences in my home. I would invite women to come from different parts of the world. Whoever wants to come. You have to pay your fee because we had to pay for our bill, our bills, you know. But I would go to my secondhand shop, you know, goodwill or whatever it was in town. And one year I got I think it was 50 little pictures. I got them each for $0.50 or a dollar. And I gave everyone, you know, a beautiful little it was like a imagine a little creamer or a little. And I talked about that. If you're going to be pouring your life out your whole life, then you need to be careful to fill it up first and that you fill it up with you know, and I would talk about from reading great books or having good friends or having quiet times, you know, whatever is spending time alone. And you and I are so related. You just don't know this. I have been an erotic hiker, walker. Be outdoors. If you could see my house here, I have a front porch that has four. Actually, it has enough room for six people to sit in rockers. And then in the back, we built a little bit of a deck with a roof that is in the forest. I mean, we are right there under a lot of trees. And so I spend so much time outside with people. I take people and hikes in my little national forest near me. It's really how I disabled my kids. If I could go with them on a long walk, then eventually I could talk them into whatever I wanted them to believe. Or No, not really. But I think it's just really being creative. I kind of changed the subject, but anyway, it would be pitchers or it might be I found these little candle holders. They were $0.50 apiece and it was in the shape of a teacup that you just put a votive candle in the top of it. And so I gave that to my friends. I would talk about becoming a light, that you are a light. But it was just fun to look for little things. This would be on special occasions when I would invite 20 people. A lot of what I have is mismatched, you know, and I would call that their privilege. I mean, I would say, you know, I got these in different places, wherever I've lived. And so you can pick whichever one you want. So it didn't have to be matched. My dining room table, if I pulled out all the eaves. I always have to keep a tablecloth on top of it because it's old and stained and I never had time to redo it. And the chairs don't all match. In other words, everybody thinks, Oh, this is so cool. Look at all these antiques. But really what it is, is, you know, Clay and I moved a lot. We we could have collected things. We've been given things. And so we make them special. You know, there are are unique special things. So I think people have the illusion that, you know, have it together or everything I have is purchased at some kind of a wonderful store. Nope. It's just, you know, kind of fits in with all the other orphans in my house.
Ginny Yurich And you just find these special things. You talked about the tea trolley and that all of your teacups are from secondhand shops. And so it just creates this environment of welcome. I love that you wrote almost all the time. I leave my table set to be ready in case anyone comes at any time so they can feel I prepared for them that I'm so very glad they had come. So great ideas in this book. If you're wanting to make that shift and just have a little bit of a more hospitable home, the book is filled with fantastic ideas for you. And then you also talked about and I thought this was really an interesting thing too, which is that you're just so you know, you told the story about having so much to do one of those days. And we have those days we wake up and we have so many things. And you had company was coming in and you were talking about you had a speaking engagement coming that you were nervous about, which actually I was going to ask about that you wrote a speaking engagement that was not in my wheelhouse. I thought, what could that possibly be.
Sally Clarkson Do you know? I don't even remember at this very moment which one it was. But I'm kind of a free spirit. And there are some times I've been with people who are a little bit different in their philosophy than I am. And I don't know how to say this in the most gracious way, but I won't. I don't want to offend anyone. There were people in the audience that I already knew had different philosophy than me, and some of them were men and they were very articulate. And so I thought, you know, I really need to go in boldly and graciously and keep my lips closed from saying anything that I'm going to regret. So it was more of an emotional preparation to stand boldly in a place I knew that people already didn't agree with me.
Ginny Yurich Yeah. So you. That looming, which I would imagine takes up a lot of mental space. So you said you have a speaking engagement, four different houseguests coming. You have a local Bible study of 20 women to meet that night. And then one of your kids called one of your adult kids called and you pivoted.
Sally Clarkson Yeah, I kind of I have this rule that whenever my kids call me, I pick it up, they answer I'm available. Even if I say, Oh, look, I'm having a podcast with Jenny, I will call you back. But I, of course, part of the book and part of the new book that's coming out for mothers and daughters is I wanted to kind of give people a picture of what it looks like to really grow deep in your relationship with your children, to take them on the hike by themselves, to ask them questions, to bribe them. You know, the funny thing is, is you spend their whole early years, you know, eat your broccoli, no sugar, or we're going to be organic. And then when, you know, they're six foot five and they're 14 years old and they're struggling with hormones, you say you want a cookie, You know, can I give you anything? You bribing them, however you need to bribe them. So my children also became the focus of deep friendship. I realized that just being busy or just educating or doing whatever we do, you know, fulfilling your goals doesn't mean you're laying the foundation of influence because of your love and your time and your words and your focus. So I kind of decided I really needed to have integrity in what I do at home in order to have integrity with the women that I minister.
Sally Clarkson To with my.
Sally Clarkson Dad and my home.
Ginny Yurich Yeah, it's really meaningful to see that you pivoted. And I think often when we do that, then the other things take care of themselves or we have to be a little bit more humble and know that we didn't get to X, Y and Z. And like you said, people can come and they can help when they get there.
Sally Clarkson I actually had some in my house once for one of these Bible studies and a shelf had dropped from my cabinet and my bathroom onto the toilet top the seat, the not the seat on the back of the ledge. And she came out of the bathroom and she said, I'm so glad that you have a correct toilet. And everyone looked at her like, What? And but she said, I do, you know, and I think when people have to help you or when they see that you're normal, it just makes them at ease.
Ginny Yurich Yeah, I agree. And you do the same thing for your grandchildren. I love They call you Queenie. And you know what, Sally? My mom is the same way when I call my mom. If we see a lot of the plans. I think when you have young kids, our last minute, we've got time to grab lunch today. Or could you go here with us tomorrow and she'll cancel? Oh, okay. Whatever. Isn't that the most special thing? She'll cancel whatever she had planned in order to come and spend time with us.
Sally Clarkson I can imagine you being a favorite of hers. A favorite person for her to spend time with you.
Ginny Yurich I love spending time with her. And so it's really special that she does that. So I loved reading that in the book. It's a reminder that we don't have to be so caught up in our day to day thoughts of how it should be that we can be flexible and that you we're flexible even with all these huge things looming. And so we can do that too. I just read this really cool book by Justin Whitmore early called Made for People. Oh, and one of the things he said in there that really stuck with me was one of the ways that we care for the ordinary is by doing things that are out of the ordinary. And that really stuck with me. And that's in your book, too. You were you talked about planning Adventure Days. So can you talk to us about some of the adventure, small, small adventure days that you would do with your friends or with your kids?
Sally Clarkson Well, I would sometimes just get bored, honestly, of what I did every single day. So we live near the mountains here in Colorado. And so I always kept a wonderful kind of group of audio books or loud music or whatever. And I would say, okay, you know, everybody, quick, you have 10 minutes to straighten up and we're going to jump in the car. And I have a surprise for you. So we would jump in the car. It would always have some kind of snacks. We actually gave all of our kids briefcases when they were little and we would just replenish them. Each of them had a briefcase in the car that they would take that had lots of fun things or things to listen to or sticker books or all sorts of interesting things. And so we would jump in the car and we would drive up to one of my favorite hikes in the mountains or the ice cream shop or a new park that I'd read about. And so we would listen to something or we would rock out to the music. And then when we would get there, everybody would run around like crazy. And then when we came back home, everybody was calmer, but they had a little bit of distraction. You know, we would do a picnic in front of the fireplace when it was snowing or just easy things. I had a big basket of their wooden eggs that I got when I lived in Poland, and I would hide them all over the house or anyway, we just tried to think of I needed fun because I like a lot of different stimulation. We went on trips. One of my friends and I went on five different national trips. Square. We packed in three, six with seven kids and then us two in the car. And the kids had to earn the money and they would work in the summers for these long trips and we would go places together for three weeks. You know, I just thought if I enjoyed life in fun, then I could develop friendships all over the United States. We would ride ahead to people and see what anybody like for us to stay with them. We would all you know, I said, I'll speak if I can stay with you. So we would make friends through. This is many years ago, but we would make friends by finding other people on the internet who said, Yeah, one woman, you know, sleeping bags all over her floor and really going astray. But those are.
Sally Clarkson Just.
Ginny Yurich Human things out of the ordinary, really special. I love that. And actually I wanted to pop back to because I think when we do these things that are out of the ordinary, like having people over to your home is something that you did often. But for some people they're hardly ever invited. So that's really out of the ordinary for them to be invited. And there was such a touching story in here about the barista You invited her over.
Sally Clarkson Yeah, well, I mean, there's this girl, and to this day, she's a good friend, but she and Saturday mornings often I would go with one of my girls downtown. One of my kids downtown. I did it with the boys team, but they had a different night. And we would have these cheesy egg quesadillas in this little cafe. And then we'd go walking amongst all the old Victorian houses and we taught and chat and have fun. And she did this for us for about a year and a half every Saturday morning. And I thought, you know, I wonder how she is, I wonder what she's like. And so I said, You know, I'm not going to say her name. I said, You know, friend, I would just love to have you over sometime. She was a single young woman. And I said, I would love to have you over to get to know you better. She came over to my house. I mean, you know, for me, I'm rushing around because my life is busy and I made a quick cup of tea for us and took a chocolate chip cookie dough ball out of the freezer. And she came to my house and we sat on my front porch and she talked and talked and talked and I asked her and ended up her life was a nightmare. I mean, she had a pretty challenging background and she stayed for about an hour and a half. I don't remember exactly. And then I got an email or a Facebook message that night, 2 hours later, and this woman said, You don't know me. I live in Michigan, but I just got a letter from this girl and she told me she'd never been invited in her whole life to anyone's house and that no one had ever treated her like you treated her. And I just wanted you to know that it made a difference. And I didn't know the woman in Michigan. I didn't know this about the girl. But, you know, she had no one. She had a terrible parental situation and no one had ever paid attention to her in her whole life. And I thought, I want to be the kind of person who has a radar out to see, are there people in my life that I can encourage or bless or invite over? And it's it's not hard. It's simple hot water in a tea bag. And the reason I really did time discipleship are you can have coffee, you can of coke, you can have whatever you want. But is because I lived in Europe for quite a while and communist countries we worked and it wasn't legal always to meet with people or to have them to your home or, you know, there were just difficulties. And so we would meet them in a cafe. And as long as we could sip our little cup of coffee or tea, that was the time that we had to influence and encourage and befriend people. So that became a symbol. To me, it's a way of an anchor in your day to say, I'm going to use this time with a friend or with someone else to reach out.
Ginny Yurich Wow. And then you said with that barista, the same woman that you gave her a Christmas present seem like it was something that was simple.
Sally Clarkson Well, I invite all my girls to do it with me, and we wrapped up two or three presents and the day before Christmas and said, we want to have a Christmas party for you. And so she came over and she said, I don't I don't want to open the presents right now because I don't have any under my tree. So we gave her a full fledged tee time and, you know, we'd made Christmas cookies. We put on the Christmas lights and the Christmas music, and she just said, Thank you so much. You know, no one has ever had me over for Christmas. It was a kind of the same sort of thing. But she's just lovely, just charming. And I couldn't bear the thought of her being alone.
Ginny Yurich But then she saved those gifts for the next day. Yeah. So that you would have something to open on Christmas. Yeah, it does. That thing that doing something out of the ordinary. And for you, that wasn't out of the ordinary because you have people over 40. But for her it was and I think that's a good reminder that sometimes maybe it seems like it's not going to make a difference or it's not that big of a deal. But to others, it really is a such a beautiful story. Very, very touching. You talk about, too, with this busyness. I just talked to this man named Dan Buettner. Who talks about the blue zones, which are places where people have a higher chance of living to be 100 centenarians. Yes. And there's different pockets in the world. And one of the things he talks about is that sort of siesta, a nap, tea time. And so that was something that's in your book, too, something that this tea time is doing is it's taking your busy day and it's forcing a little bit of a slowdown, It's forcing connection. And you're having this time that's built in where you have to slow down and be present and be there. So let's talk about the tea. You go through this is interesting. I actually didn't know about the tea. There's a bunch of different kinds. And you gave some cool suggestions that I never heard of, like swishing the hot water in the glass. And you talk about your favorite tea in the book. Tell us how you make your favorite tea.
Sally Clarkson Okay. Well, our family is neurotic in every area of our lives. In other words, were idealistic. And we did every I mean, we still to this day, at three or 330, everybody stops and has 15 minutes of tea and, you know, some little sweeter little piece of chocolate or something. But I like my tea really hot. And so I start out boiling the water and then I pour hot water into my tea cup so that it will take some of the heat from the hot water. And then I re boil the water and put a whole new, fresh, hot water in the tea. It can't be too full because I like it really strong. Imagine a person who likes French roast coffee. I like Pinterest tea. Not really. It's strong tea. It's called Yorkshire Gold and you can get it online from Amazon, dare I say that word? Or you know, other stores and you steep it for at least 3 minutes, but if you steep it for more than 5 minutes, it will be bitter and you can actually get this tea, Yorkshire tea and decaf should you want to do that. And I am a girl who knows deeply in my heart that I am going to die someday. But it won't be from the two teaspoons of sugar I have in my tea every morning. So I have a little bit of sugar and milk and there's my team. It's so simple and it's so easy. And if you make tea in China, actually it can be a mug. It can be anything. China holds the heat better. So get some kind of little China microscope. I have mugs and cups and you keep the tea warmer while you answer the phone or bring your dog in or whatever you need to do to keep your tea hot.
Ginny Yurich It's an interesting thing to have that built into your day to automatically slow down. I had read a book. I mean, sometimes they all celebrate a kind of work together. It might have been that Justin Whitmore earlier give this summer and we talked about it on the podcast. Someone will hear and know about how as our days go, that sometimes by early afternoon we're starting to feel a little like we wake up wide eyed. You wake up wide eyed of what we're going to accomplish. And by mid-afternoon, sometimes we're a little in a slump because.
Sally Clarkson We get all your.
Sally Clarkson Your adrenaline physically is down. You have less adrenaline. And also, I think that sometimes if you're in a tizzy or if you've had a little bit of a difficult day, you sit down, you breathe, you know, you're going to have this every single day. When we lived in the different countries, we lived in Austria, lived in Poland, lived in England, in every single country that we lived in. They had a tea time. They called it a Yowza, probably saying that incorrectly in German. You know, of course, tea time in England, though, city is better than theirs because they don't make it strong. It takes it. And I read an article that said if you take a little nap 15 minutes every day, or if you have a break and breathe that you live longer, your body is less stressed. And I just found I was a kind of a kinder, happier person to be around when I gave myself permission to sit down like one candle, enjoy my life, put my music on and then read something whatever I wanted to do. Then 15 minutes later, the world was still there and I still had things to do, but I was a better off person.
Ginny Yurich Wow. And it is interesting about that Blue Zones concept that when you read those books, there really are not that many things. They're walking like you're walking the five miles a day. They're eating more whole food plant based type things. They're napping or taking their tea time. I mean, these are the principles that are helping a lot of these people live longer.
Sally Clarkson And I think in the blue zone, too, doesn't it say that community that that it's developing a group of people that you can grow old with, that you can be around?
Ginny Yurich Yeah, Yeah. So this the logistics of your tee time add a lot, they add a lot to your life and in ways that are very significant and long lasting. I really like in here this concept of being an artist in your own home. I really like that. It's really freeing because I think in the world where there's Pinterest and Instagram. And you see other people's homes. And I think a lot of times we're just trying to copy it. At least that's what I'm doing. I'm like, I'm not really good at this, so I'm just going to look at what that person is doing and try and emulate. But I like the idea of like, let it be what you love.
Sally Clarkson Mm hmm.
Sally Clarkson Well, if you go around our house, there are I called him artifacts there. We just would always get with all the places we lived. We would get, you know, a thing here or there. I have photographs of the kids all over the house. We know a man who does his beautiful manuscripts here. He does this Italian illumination, Roman illumination of words. And so every anniversary we would get one of those for each other. So we have those all over the house. And again, I have a lot of second hand stuff because they have a lot of those kind of places in Europe. And, you know, just to make it an interesting place that is meaningful to me and to my kids and to Clay. And it doesn't have to be the picture of what might be in some kind of magazine. But they're little elements that please us from a memory made or a picture that we remember or whatever. So yeah, I think it's fun to have your own imprint and your whole life.
Ginny Yurich And one of the ideas in here, which I never heard of, I think it's such a phenomenal idea, is to have a small sitting area in everyone's room.
Sally Clarkson We did. I ended up over the years getting everyone some kind of a little tiny couch or just some kind of an overstuffed chair or whatever. And usually I made sure that they had to like, you know, in a corner where there'd be two chairs or a little tiny sofa that two people could sit on. I like the idea of creating space where you can be friends, where two people can sneak away and sit together. And I would sneak all of my children away to my little room wherever we lived with a little couch and say, Let's have 15 minutes together or 10 minutes together. And I would close the door. Of course, eventually somebody would come in. But it was a way of just, you know, saying, I really love spending time with you. You're one of my favorite people in the world. It was a way of giving words and giving time. And now really, my children are my best friends and confidantes.
Ginny Yurich Wow. That's a really, really good idea. I would have never thought. And then the book, because it's such a beautiful book and these photos are just phenomenal. My favorite picture. I really like the one with the chairs in the table because you really see you could get a little set up. And then you talked about one of the chairs you got for your granddaughter.
Sally Clarkson Which is really cute too.
Ginny Yurich But my favorite picture, I love stained glass.
Sally Clarkson So this is such a gorgeous.
Sally Clarkson Oh, no, you're going to you're going to just die. You are going to die. I don't want to really tell you. It's my secret.
Sally Clarkson Okay. Okay. Of what it is.
Sally Clarkson It's a $15 decal that I got at Walmart. And everybody thinks that I have this really expensive stained.
Sally Clarkson Glass.
Sally Clarkson Door.
Ginny Yurich That's what this.
Sally Clarkson Is. Yeah, I'll show you. Oh. Oh, wow.
Sally Clarkson Because we know when people would come to the door, they could see us.
Sally Clarkson Yeah.
Sally Clarkson And we didn't want them to always be able to see us. So one of my friends who is a decorator, not me, she said, I have this beautiful stained glass that you can put on your front door. And I thought, What? Although my husband did years ago, make stained glass, he has stingless that he has created that is in a different part of our house.
Ginny Yurich Wow. If I could pick a hobby to learn, it would be that.
Sally Clarkson Yeah. Wouldn't that be fun? So now the world knows my secret.
Ginny Yurich So it was cool to see it in person. That so well. And actually, I wonder. You can kind of see it here.
Sally Clarkson Yeah, you can. And the person who grabbed it, I know, I realize. Probably thought it was Dick.
Ginny Yurich And here's the one. This is the one where you've got the chairs and the table and a place that's big enough for a candle and some books and a couple cookies in the cups and a really cute lamp with a rabbit on it.
Sally Clarkson And I liked rabbits and birds to put in all my tables in my house.
Ginny Yurich I'm sure that there's a lot of people that have been in your home when they get a book like this and they've actually seen it in person. What a cool thing. The photos are just absolutely gorgeous. So I love to be able to see. I mean, that's a difference. I've read a lot of your books, and so this is a really unique one where you actually see it. What does it actually look like? And it's very enticing. So just beautiful. The thought for your kids rooms to have a sitting spot where you could have conversation. And and I really because we have several kids and so it's about a place where you can hide from everyone else just for a little bit because otherwise you're always together and it gives them their own special little time.
Sally Clarkson I think people think they have to do things in a fancy, time consuming way and they say, I don't have any more time, but when it is already in a rhythm in your house. And it's just get you get your mug. I get my mug less than 10 minutes together. But that one brick that you lay that day, you know, it takes a thousand or million bricks to make a house. You're building that friendship from 15 minutes a day with your friends, with your children. That ends up becoming a close relationship. It's not a hard thing. It's a simple thing.
Ginny Yurich And it takes less time than we think.
Sally Clarkson Yeah.
Ginny Yurich Relationships can develop quickly and deeply with little investments over the course of a long time, and that's really an encouraging thing. How about this concept of soul piles? I like this. I like this because this is the thing that we talk about. So our house is fairly cluttered. I try and keep up with it the best I can, but we're in a season where it's just not happening very much.
Sally Clarkson There are many objects in the house isn't clean.
Ginny Yurich But it is a thing where if a closet, let's say all the towels are folded nicely and it can stay clean if you keep up with it. But then as soon as it start, as soon as it starts to fray, if things are hanging out, then all of a sudden it's over because it signals to everyone that it doesn't matter anymore. And so I think it happens to it piles like if you have a clean area in your home and that stuff starts to pile and everyone starts to pile their things there. So you took that and related that to our souls and our minds. I thought it was such a cool parallel. So can you talk to us about how we can deal with the things that pile up on the insides of us over the course of time?
Sally Clarkson Yeah. I think that in a normal world where we're surrounded by other less than perfect people and less than perfect circumstances, I made January a special time of decluttering. I call it decluttering my soul, because sometimes I would realize I had an attitude or a resentment or guilt for something I didn't do well or I, you know, whatever it was fear. And if I took the time to glance into my soul and I do this from time to time now and realize that I have stored up attitudes and thoughts, maybe in relationships or in relationship to life or bitterness, whatever that is, stealing from me, it becomes a poison inside of you. So I take time again, there goes that chair in your room where nobody can find you, hopefully to really write down, How am I feeling? What's going on? Or I write a letter to God. Dear Lord, shine your light on the places in my heart today. Because I don't want to carry. I want to be as free as a little child. And I don't want to carry burdens that are unnecessary. And so I talked about just how every year and I do write this every year in January. It's real important for us to declutter our souls and to throw away what isn't necessary to deal with what can be dealt with so that we can live more freely and think more wisely because we have put our finger on the issues that need to be dealt with. And so I try to keep my soul clutter kind of cleaned out from time to time so that I'm not carrying some kind of heavy weight of false guilt or, you know, false resentment.
Ginny Yurich Yeah. And it's just such a neat way to think about it in terms of we have to do that with our homes from time to time, otherwise it becomes unlivable. Right. It's a really good thought to regular times to think about what's piling up. And sort of in that vein, you also talk about when we're discouraged, you talk about winter seasons in our lives, and the seasons are so cool how they remind us there's those parallels.
Sally Clarkson It's metaphors, you know.
Ginny Yurich All those metaphors for sure. And sometimes you look at someone like you and you've got these beautiful books and your kids are doing such cool things and you forget that everyone has hard times and winter seasons. What do you think and what brings you hope when you're in a season like that?
Sally Clarkson You know, I'm going to go back to the book, actually, because I have invested over many years. My first daughter is 39, then 37. And you know, because I did, I can call one of my children at any time and pour my soul out or confess my attitude or aggravation or whatever, or say I'm really lonely or whatever, because we built deep rooted relationships over many years, 15 minutes at a time. And honestly, I do. I'm grateful that I have many friends all over the world, but they are my go to best friends. We know each other. We've lived together. We've been through tension together. We've been through difficulties together. But bottom line is, we were always in our home. We're going to always in the evening on a foundation of love. You know, this is a time to forgive. This is the time to say I'm sorry. This is the time to realize nobody in your life is perfect. So we have the kind of relationship that really gives me Hirschman heart. I just wish they all lived next door. But I'm very grateful that they're all living into the dreams of their own lives.
Ginny Yurich And so when you're building those relationships is. And investment into the seasons that are coming. You don't know. You don't know when you might find yourself in a season that's really hard. And I love what you said to that. Even in the winter seasons, roots are growing deep. I just heard for the first time, not sure if you know it, but there's this Andrew Peterson song called Planting Trees. It's beautiful. He talks about how in the fall they planted trees with the hope that the roots will grow deep and that eventually that they'll bring shade and that they'll it says that that the branches will stretch out and bless someone you don't know, you don't know for a while. And so I just thought that was such a beautiful thing about having hope. Hope in the winter seasons, hope in the hard seasons. And you can prepare for them by investing in your current season.
Sally Clarkson And you know, I, I just turned 70 and so I'm it's kind of a marker. And as I look back, you know you need to remember that it's not winter forever and matter how terrible something is, there will be a new season. And by the way, I love Andrew. He's a close friend of our family.
Sally Clarkson Oh.
Ginny Yurich Oh, cool. I heard him lie for the first time this spring and I was blown away. Probably one of the most touching things I've ever sat through. So funny, so talented. The songs just are so meaningful, and I think I kind of go, Where else can I go hear him?
Sally Clarkson I know he even comes Oxford. We just saw him in Oxford a little just a little bit ago. He's a poet and he I mean, he he really touches the deep places in your heart with beautiful words, like a song that he's written called Why Don't the Mountains Make Me Cry No More. You know, kind of like when you were a little child, everything was moralist and amazing and beautiful and, you know, my becoming hard hearted and the same thing. It's just this this poetically beautiful song. So there we played. Andrew. Hello.
Ginny Yurich Poetically beautiful. He has one called Dancing in the Minefields about marriage.
Sally Clarkson But I love that.
Ginny Yurich We went sailing in the storm. It was, you know, and it's just it is so beautiful and that planting trees, when I listen to it all the time.
Sally Clarkson I'm going to listen.
Sally Clarkson To that tonight.
Ginny Yurich It's such a gift to hear him live in person. And so that's what it makes me think about, that We're all planting seeds and planting trees for the hope of tomorrow, right? You never know. You never know which ones are going to flourish. And I think that's what's happening throughout your book, right, is that you planting so many seeds every day at 3:00. Every time you're sitting in someone's room, every time you're inviting, every time you take the phone call from record, all of these times you invite the barista over, joked about a woman. Was it in Austria? The pair?
Sally Clarkson Oh yeah.
Ginny Yurich All over the world planted.
Sally Clarkson The seed with.
Ginny Yurich These different relationships. Can we hear one last topic and what a gift does? I never in a million years that I would ever even get to talk with you. And in fact, I told you, my friend Christine, she messaged me and said this was her favorite of your book. Oh, tea time discipleship, sharing faith one cup at a time. And then I read it and I was like, Oh, I totally get it. But we were sitting next to you at one of the wild and free conferences with Jennifer Pepito, and we were both.
Sally Clarkson Like, Well, how.
Ginny Yurich Are we even here? That's all we were thinking.
Sally Clarkson I think that's you. And I'm there.
Ginny Yurich And then Jennifer Bebeto left, and it was just us. We were like, Oh my goodness. Just as And we talked about that moment so much and how special it is. So it is such a gift to get an hour with you. And now for a second time, I really want to share my heartfelt thanks. And, and I love books that get you excited. I want to try that. And that's what you did with it. I want to try that. I want to try these different ideas. And they're doable. I could try them today. I could try them tomorrow. I can be more intentional about my invites. So the book is practical and touching and encouraging, and I can't wait to read the next one for mothers and daughters. But one of the topics maybe we could hit here on the end is you have four kids, you homeschooled, you have a worldwide, a global ministry. You were hosting events for hundreds of people on a regular basis. And then you write, Life has gotten busier with every year I age, which you really don't think. I think as a young mom, sometimes you're wishing away those years to be less busy. But I think it's good to know that they don't get less busy. And so you have to learn. Now, how do you balance that to the best of your ability?
Sally Clarkson Well, I have to say I absolutely love what you do. I champion it every time I can. I, I see it online. And I'm so proud of you because I think that a lot of women I know and I understand this, if you have your present in the house kids your whole life, and then all of a sudden they go, there can be quite a vacuum, there can be quite a space. But I think it's kind of a glory that we can all work that glory, that we can all, whatever your interest is, whether. It's gardening, writing, you know, doing what you do, which is absolutely so important. And I never missed a beat, you know? I mean, I'm even recreating myself now that I'm probably moving most of the year back to these states, which are some of the year in Oxford. I'm always trying to design a full life and say, how can I make this particular time in my life full and beautiful? And I think one of the illusions I had is that someday with my four kids, that somehow there would just be time. But they call me all the time. They have needs, you know. This summer we had a graduation, a marriage, a birthday, a family reunion. And I'm I'm still cooking for all these hungry people. And my grandchildren were with me for three weeks, and they kept getting up at 6:00 and.
Sally Clarkson Quickly make me a cup of tea.
Sally Clarkson So I am very grateful that I can create busyness in that way, because I do think that we are so close to our kids when we homeschool. And then if you have the privilege of reaching out to other families and women and being able to be involved in some kind of work, then your life just keeps going. And I think that that's important. Also, maybe there are some older women listening to our podcast today that young women would love for you to invite them over to take care of them or to give them advice or to give them a little care package or a meal. And that our lives, my life, because those are kind of my goals, has just never not been busy, because I do have always had people in my life, people that need something that I can give. And I love working. And also my children call me so many times a week. I am so often with them. And now there's more. There's son in law, there's grandchildren. So I think that cultivating a meaningfully busy life is something that keeps all of us going for a long time.
Ginny Yurich And, you know, that's in the blue zones, too.
Sally Clarkson Sally I know.
Ginny Yurich Some of the cultures, they don't even have a word for retirement. It doesn't explain.
Sally Clarkson Well, and I agree with that because I think without the opportunity to do some of the work I do, I probably would be lonely. All my kids are living far away, but I try to make a balance between loving and enjoying them, but not feeling in any way that I would ever want to control their lives or determine what they do. I just want to be a blessing. But I also have filled my life with a lot of being with people like you love being at these wild and free conferences. It's just such a privilege to be with so many wonderful people.
Ginny Yurich It sure is. So Sally Clarkson Tea Time discipleship just came out this year sharing Faith one cup at a time. Wonderful book. Sally is a bestselling author, world renowned speaker, beloved mother. You have your incredible weekly podcast at home. Easily 20 million downloads, just phenomenal candid wisdom, winsome discipleship, married to Clay for 41 years. You have the whole heart ministries. You've got your four kids, you've got the grandkids, in-laws, and all of your kids are doing really neat things like musicians and filmmakers. It's really similar to Andrew Peterson, us talking.
Sally Clarkson About his kids. Yeah, well, we.
Sally Clarkson We laugh about that actually.
Ginny Yurich All these artists. So I'll make sure I put where people can find you if they don't already know. I'm sure they already know, but you have your online community life easily. So lots there. And then a new book that's coming out in October, is that correct?
Sally Clarkson That's correct. Can I say one less thing? One of the reasons I wrote this book is I think that moms don't take care of themselves. And sometimes they think curriculum or getting the right schedule is the most important thing. And what I see and while I wrote this book, is I want women to understand that along the way, if you're not making friends, taking care of yourself, doing what you're calling the blue zone things, then you're are going to wear out, you are going to fall apart. And that's just you are a limited human being. So that's why I wrote this. I want you to take care of yourselves. And I love being with you. You're the very best in the world, podcaster. You really are. You are so complete, professional, interesting, friendly, gracious. You are just wonderful. You have such.
Sally Clarkson Interesting.
Sally Clarkson Questions and interesting thoughts. And I thought I wish we were next door neighbors.
Ginny Yurich Sometime I'm coming to have tea, but I'm going to put chocolate milk or something in my cup. I got your.
Sally Clarkson Email. Okay.
Ginny Yurich Thank you for your time, Sally. Thank you for your so gracious. Oh, and you just see why people are drawn to you that you are able to put into beautiful words ways to make our lives better and in an enticing way. So you just can't wait to try it. And hopefully I'll see you maybe at a wild and free conference soon.
Sally Clarkson So I hope so soon. All right. Thank you so much. This is a blessing and privilege.
