The Power of the Multigenerational Family - Interview with John Hannigan, executive director of Celebrate Kids

Ginny: Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. I have a friend on with me today, which is so exciting. This is John Hannigan and we met earlier this year, actually, and have talked quite a bit with him and his wife over the past several months. And I’m so excited to have him on the podcast today. How are you doing, John? 

John: I'm doing good. Thanks for having me. 

Ginny: I'm so glad you're here. Could you take a minute and just tell us who you are? 

John: OK, so I am John. I am the father of four kids. Joey is 15 and then Maddie is 13. Ella is eight and Charlotte is seven. And you already said my wife Melissa. And we live in Florida, sunny, beautiful Florida, where we can be outside all day. And I am also the executive director of Celebrate Kids and an associate of Ignite the Family. 

Ginny: That's awesome. I can't wait to talk more about those organizations. We actually are starting this podcast 30 minutes late. So that is life. I think that this is like the real life podcast. 

We're going to be talking about getting outside when you don't like getting outside. We’re talking about real life and getting back to roots and then grandparents. And it's sort of just embracing the ups and downs of life. And so I'm so excited about that. It's really nice to be with a friend. We met at the Florida Homeschool Convention. It's called FPEA.

John: FPEA stands for Florida Parent Educators Association. 

Ginny: I guess I could have guessed probably. And it is a really awesome conference. We loved it because it's at a resort. There were all these pools and restaurants and we met down there in May. But we actually kind of met online before that because you put on this online conference during covid in 2020, through Virginia, through HEAV. And I'm going to guess it's the Home Educators Association of Virginia. 

So you're the executive director of Celebrate Kids. I love that name, Celebrate Kids. I love kids. I've always loved kids and since I was young. So tell us about Celebrate Kids.

Speaker 2: [00:13:44] So Celebrate Kids was founded by Kathy Koch. Dr. Kathy Koch wrote The 8 Great Smarts. I think you're actually talking to her later this season. And so she founded Celebrate Kids because she saw a need for parenting resources. And so we provide parenting and education resources. There's kind of a misnomer that we work mainly with homeschool families, but we work with all school families. So we teach with the ASCI the American Christian Schools Inc. and then also several state home school associations. 

Kathy has written several books and we have several core concepts. We have The 8 Great Smarts. We have the 5 Core Needs, which is how we kind of identify what we need in life and then several other things. We actually have an author that's writing a book right now on the genius qualities and helping instill the genius qualities in your children.

Ginny: I think the parents are really going to be intrigued by that, because you know, we've got this sort of career focused approach to kids. And I think parents are going to find that really interesting. 

John: Well, it is. I think it's funny. Last year during covid, you know, she was just starting to do the research and info on this book. And Melissa, my wife, is the one writing it. And so I get home and I'm staring at a window, I'm literally standing in the kitchen and I'm looking at the window in our dining room. As they paint the window and it's dripping and it's soapy and it's grows and I'm in there sitting on the buffet and like, I'll have to find the picture so I can send it to you and you can post it for people. But visually, you have to get this picture that they're painting and there's tape on the window. And I was like, “What are we doing here?” And she's like, “Oh, we're instilling three of the genius qualities” and I'm like all I see is you messing up a window. But the reality is this is what we're teaching. 

Ginny: So that's why I think the book is going to be awesome, because it probably does not look like instilling genius qualities, it does not look like what people would think. They think it looks like getting tutoring. They're going to think it looks like more and more and more classes, but really looks like dripping paint on your floor.

The 8 Great Smarts is this concept that kids are smart in different ways and so it's a way to sort of celebrate the ways in which they're smart and to help them find those things. Is that a little bit of a summary? 

John: Yeah, so we are all smart in eight different ways: Body smart, logic smart music, nature, people, picture, self, and word. 

What Kathy teaches about is that, most of us are learning word smart. Like that's what we're being taught in schools. And so how do you teach a child who is picture smart maybe, and people smart that they are actually smart when they're not they're being told that they're smart?

And so, again, I go back to my daughter, who is dyslexic. And so she has a lot of problems with “word smart.” And she read some information, has had several conversations with Kathy, obviously, and Maddie is very logic smart and very picture smart, and it was this moment where she was like, wait, I actually am smarter and I could do something like be an architect. And the reality is she could now she'd have to have someone check the drawings to make sure the measurements were right. But her creative side, the picture smart side, the logic. Oh, there needs to be a support column here. You know, that kind of thing will be good for her.I am not very nature smart, which is why we're talking. 

Ginny: And I'm also actually not very nature smart. I wouldn't put myself in that category. But we go outside most days just so I don't lose my mind. And I know that it's beneficial for my kids in a lot of different areas, but probably I don't think that's the one that I would fall into. 

I would imagine that knowing about these smarts is helpful for kids and for parents and, you know, like you said, like your daughter, to have these light bulb moments of, oh, I'm worthy, after having an entire school year of not feeling worthy.

Can you read them one more time the parents can hear? Yeah. So I have two books on this. 

John: So it's body smart logic, smart music, smart nature, smart people, smart picture, smart, self smart and word smart. 

Ginny: Wow. What would you say you are, huh? 

John: So I would say people. I mean, that's me. Picture and word would be kind of be in my top. Music. I love music, rhymes, melodies, those kinds of rhythms.

Ginny: I think it offers hope for parents who are maybe really struggling and for children who are struggling. I think sometimes in life you have these different things to offer, but they're not celebrated or they're not focused on. You've got four kids. So I would imagine they're all different kinds of smarts.

John:  Yeah. Oh, it's and it's fascinating to watch them develop their smarts. You're seeing them come out. You're like, OK, I didn't think that was you, but like, oh, you are more like your more body smart than I thought or like, you know, you're you're or you're not very body smart. And that's why you fall down all the time. 

Ginny: I think that it changes our response. We know maybe the child needs more help in a certain are. It gives us a better understanding of our children and of ourselves. So Celebrate Kids is parenting resources like The 8 Great Smarts. Kathy has a lot of resources, including amazing VHS tapes. She has 30 years of resources. 

And one of the things that we utilize on a weekly basis from Celebrate Kids kids are these questions that Dr. Kathy Cook puts out every week. They are questions for around the dinner table or if you're in the car and every week she posts and they are thought provoking questions for kids and for families. And so we use those every week and our kids love them and they're always sad when they're over.

John: We love the Ask a Child questions. Probably the biggest thing I think that we do for parents to really engage. We want parents to engage their kids. And so I think we give them something that's easy. It's not that hard to ask a question that was on your Instagram, right? You're scrolling and it's like, oh, hey, kids, I have a question for you. Like, that's kind of what it looks like, so. 

We love the Ask a Child questions, they're by far probably our favorite thing in the ministry that people like that people ask for. We're also developing some new products right now for them. So we'll be coming out with, like that flip chart kind of. So each day you can look at a calendar like a calendar. 

John: You know, we are a nonprofit, so we do what the budget allows.

And then the other big thing that we do at Celebrate Kids... So Kathy talks a lot more than about the Smarts. We all have five core needs inside of us. We're made wanting security, identity, belonging, purpose and competence and security is the base, like who can I trust? And then we build up from there.

Culturally, we've been taught that competence is really the core. What am I good at? At the end of the day, what you're good at doesn't necessarily matter. But we've based our whole life around. What are you good at? What profession are you going to have if you're good at this. And this is what you're going to do with your life.

But what we do is we shifted to security. Who can I trust? Am I belonging? Who am I with? Where do I belong? What is my purpose? What am I called to do? And then competence. What am I good at? We build in that manner instead of building in the opposite manner.

You realize that you're competent to do what you're called to do, which is to work within the groups of people that you belong in. And because you know who you are, because you know whose you are. And so for me I do a lot of work with identity and who we are because I think kids need to know who they are.

Ginny: So I grew up playing the piano and actually I would say of the smarts that I and probably music and people. I really enjoyed playing the piano and I played guitar and I started piano when I was four and my parents really sacrificed.

I just texted my parents the other day because, you know, our youngest just turned five and we've got five kids. We've been in a little bit of a turmoil for the last little bit so it’s hard to get kids to lessons. And Josh, my husband traveled a lot for work. So we're just sort of hitting that stride where I'm signing my kids up for some different things, voice, things that they're interested in. 

And it's expensive and it's kind of a pain, and I just texted my parents because I'm just so grateful, you know, they took me to these lessons. They drove, you know, my mom does not like to drive and she drove far. I looked back at the cost and I’m grateful. 

So I play the piano and I love it. And I played in church and at weddings and different things. And when I turned around 16 or 17, I stopped my lessons. I just couldn't keep up with it anymore. They were expecting like three hours a day of practice at that level. And I just felt like I couldn't, I couldn't give what it took. And so I quit after 12 years. And I still played at functions at the time. 

But I remember thinking, who am I without this? I am Ginny, the piano player, and when that was gone, I had this crisis within myself where I had to reach back and figure it out.

And I think just from this small amount of conversation, parents can understand that these are fantastic resources to have as a parent for your children or as a grandparent. And I'm excited to talk to Kathy about that more later this month. You also have another ministry called Ignite the Family, which I love both names. So why don't you tell us a little bit about Ignite the Family? 

John: So Ignite the Family is an organization where we believe in the multigenerational family. And I think a lot of the issues that we have now as far as younger parents and kind of the next generation could be eased if we brought in the third generation. So often it's like, well, this is my nuclear family, like this is my family and we're talking about the nuclear family. 

But what happens when we bring in the third and the fourth generation? And so we really have a passion for helping grandparents know where they fit, helping parents understand where their parents fit. And then helping the kids understand how to navigate that. 

We're about building each kind of member of the family. And so we do some women's events. We're going to start a men's event next year. We do a specific event for homeschooling moms. And then we're looking at some like family camps, which we'll talk about more later. So several different things. 

One of the things that came up this year was grandparents - like they don't know how to connect in or they accidentally alienate. 

I think about my mother and who just texted me, by the way, because she kept my daughter Charlotte overnight. And there was a lot of time where that kind of stuff didn't happen because we didn't know how to engage each other. 

And so, like, she's mom, but I'm an adult now and I have my own wife and my own kids. And I'm like, Mom, you can't yell at me for not shaving, right? You don't own me anymore. Like you have launched me. It's OK if I don't shave for three days, you know - so finding that balance. 

And my grandparents, I think so often because they don't truly they don't understand the culture. And they don't understand what's going on in this world. They look at their grandkids and they're like, what's wrong with you? And then it alienates them. And so then it's like, oh, I don't want to deal with grandma. I don't want to deal with grandpa. 

So how do we engage those conversations? How do we engage the communication and bridge the gaps and connect the whole generation family because a cord of three strands cannot be broken? And so bring all three chords together and go, “Hey, we are the family.” 

So it's something that I'm specifically really passionate about. It's something that Kathy is very passionate about. And so it kind of burst out of Celebrate Kids. We’re in the midst of it. But we want to provide resources for the family, that three generation family every day of the year. 

Ginny: Wow. So that's awesome. 

We have great grandparents on both sides so we are so blessed, our kids are so blessed, they're so loving and engaging. And we were with my parents yesterday and with my husband's parents just last week. I'm very thankful.

I think the transition is hard. You sort of get to those different points and there can be a lot of sticky points, but something that I've learned over the years if you take your extended family, aunts and uncles, it's like everyone who brings something to the table. This one's an artist and this one likes to bake cookies. And even with those different smarts, you know, you might have a grandparent that is body smart that relates to the two year old. 

But I think when you start to expand that circle of family, then you have such a pool of resources for your children and it's a delight for the grandparents. And it's like it's a win-win-win. 

When everyone can engage in, what an awesome idea to have resources for that. I have not really seen many resources for that. Maybe none. I can't think of any resources I've seen that really pull in that third generation.

With 1000 Hours Outside we get tagged a lot. People are outside, so they tag 1000 hours outside. And my favorite ones to see are the ones when there's grandpa there or the grandparents are in the picture and they're doing it together and they say 1000 Hours Outside Grandma. I'm getting outside with my six year old grandson. Those are really special moments. 

John: Well, and that's what connects us, right? That's a bond. It's not just going to see Grandma and sitting on the couch and staring at her. It's getting outside with her. It's getting connected with her. It's grandpa and you go swimming, fishing. Like we've lost that. 

One of the kids that works with us, he's like twenty one and I kind of mentored him for a while and I'm like, what are you doing? And he's like I'm going fishing with my grandpa. And I'm like that is so 1986 of you. I love it, you know, because that's what it should be. 

We're sitting on our front porch on Friday night and one of our good friends was over and we were like, this is the kind of neighborhood we grew up in. We have that idyllic childhood that we all kind of grew up in. Now I look at kids and they're in a planned community and they're in structured activities. And they're like you said, there's piano and dance and baseball. And we're going, going, going, going, going. And when are we allowed to just be? 

Ginny: Everyone has the things that they offer. And I think that's the special thing about it. It's like you have these four grandparents, you know and sometimes we have adopted grandparents. You know, I remember growing up in our church. We had a Grandma Newell. So,you have these family members that really pour into you. It doesn't necessarily have to be your biological family either. And, you know, everyone in the community is gleaning something.

John: Grandmas and grandpas and aunts and uncles that are not actually related to you.

Ginny: I am drawn to that. When we are down south sometimes the housing is different. I read this book by Joel Salatin. He has a big farm in the Shenandoah Valley. And he wrote this book. I'm not sure actually which book he wrote it in, but he's written a lot of books and in one of the books he talked about how, on his farm, he had a bunch of different homes and they rotated through depending on what season of life they were in. 

They've got the big farmhouse. And that's where you live when you've got your four kids and you're raising your children. And then they also have the ranch house that's one level, that's smaller. And so when you’re done raising your kid you, when you're the grandparents, you go to the ranch. And then they've got the small one for you’ve just gotten married and you just started out. Everyone's kind of together in community and I think they do a meal once a week. Everyone also has their own space. It just sounded so ideal. 

John: I love that. And also it keeps all of our kids at home. I mean, I understand that I'm raising them to launch them and let them go. But then also my son is 15 now and I'm like, you're so cool. Like, I just want to be your friend, right? And I'm like, but you're going to leave in three years. And, you know, and Melissa always jokes that, you know, just text me where you're getting married and I'll come. I won't bring your father, I promise, because I'm a little bit embarrassing. I'm the embarrassing dad.Isn't there always like an embarrassing parent, Ginny? 

Ginny: I don't know if it's me. Maybe it is. I'm sure it's me. Actually, it's me. It is me. Because I dance weird when we're out in public and a good song comes on and the kids are like, stop. So it's me. 

John: So I'm the embarrassing parent. I love Joey. Joey's my oldest. He's the only boy. So at church several years ago I'd see him and I'd yell at him to come give me a hug and embarrass him and and you know, then he got wise and so now he will see me and be like, Daddy, come on, give me all of his friends also think I'm fine because they're like, you're so fine because you're nice and you're, you know, whatever. And I'm like, and he really thinks he's winning, right. Like because he's like, I embarrassed you before you embarrassed me. And really I'm like, but you're fifteen and you gave me a hug. 

Ginny: I love that. We do really only have such a short period of time with our kids. And so I think we really want to make sure that we get to be a part as grandparents. 

I have put out a question on Facebook. It was in 2019 about people's earliest outdoor memories. What was your earliest outdoor memory as a child? I would say nine out of 10 responses were with grandparents and fishing with grandparents or these different things. And so it actually made me think about my answer.

And my grandma was born and raised on a farm, a dairy farm in West Virginia, and her brother stayed there his whole life. So that was my great uncle and he and his wife weren't ever able to have kids. It was just the two of them on his dairy farm. My great uncle and his wife, Evelyn. And so we would go visit as kids. And I ended up writing a short children's book about it because they had no toys. They didn't have children of their own. They had no toys there. And those were some of our favorite childhood memories. They had a little rickety dock at this small pond and they had barns and little barn cats and dogs and cows. And I wrote this book, John, and then just a few years ago, we moved to a small farm house. You know, we've never done that before, this little hobby farm. And we moved in and I walked up to the fencing the day that we moved in. And the neighbor has all these cows and they came walking over and it's just like a picture in my book. 

We didn't know about the cows because they move them around to different pastures. And when we first came and looked at the home, they weren't there. And so all of these cattle and I'm like, this is just like my childhood. That really was a deep thing for me and my parents allowing us to have those experiences.

I mean, it was probably awful for them, really. There were no toys, right? I mean, I'm thinking about this vacation. It was a really small house. I remember we were always kind of crammed in this one little room. You know, they were always a little nervous. We were going to be over their house, they never had kids. 

But I have such great memories and so thinking about my parents' experiences versus ours, but that they still facilitated that for us and for me, it was like I left a lifelong impact. I think about getting back to that time with grandparents and great aunts and uncles and extended family and we might impact our children in ways that we may never even know. 

John: My dad's uncle, so my great uncle, owns a farm in Missouri and we grew up going there. So we went to the farm and there were sheep. There were sheep and cattle and there was a silo of grain. So obviously they were growing corn. And I didn't really understand that. We were city people. 

You and everyone piles into that small house. And it's I mean, you're talking like, who are you? And they're like, Oh, I'm your cousin. And I was like, Are you? Really, like I didn't. OK, cool. Nice to meet you, cousin.

You know, but it was that concept of everyone coming together and everyone hanging out and, you know, and I don't remember, you know, it's funny because I think about the farm now. I haven't even thought about these memories in a long time. Ginny, you're like walking me down memory lane. 

But I think about the farm and I think about, you know, being outside and my great uncle taught me to drive because he was a mail carrier. So he had the pedals on the other side of the truck. So we went out into the field. And so I drove this jeep out in the field where he could stop and start and whatever, you know. And so, those kind of memories. 

I have several sets of grandparents - divorce on both sides of my family. And so I had my grandfather, who ended up having kids my age, married a younger woman, had kids my age. And so he was there, but not really. It was kind of like a weird sort of grandad situation. And then my grandmother was all the way in Arizona and we lived in Missouri at the time. And so I didn't see her very often. But my granny, my great uncle and my great aunt, they were like my grandparents. We would go to the farm and we'd see them. And so it's not just the grandparents. It's all generations of family you can connect into and who ground you ultimately, you know, and they kind of keep you rooted and they know the history and they know the stories. 

Ginny: And, you know, as I think about it now as an adult, all of a sudden you have this different perspective. I loved going to the farm as a kid. That was like my only thought. And now I'm looking at it from this perspective of, well, when I plan vacations with my own kid, would I choose to go to this small house with these people that have never had children of their own? I mean, I can see how stressful that was for my parents. 

And I can also look at it from the perspective of my great aunt and uncle who are welcoming in this family of five over many days. And they make these amazing breakfasts. I still remember that. That can give me perspective, too, about how powerful it is to welcome people into your home, that it doesn't have to be a huge home, that we can be hospitable with what we have.

And they have passed away my great aunt, my great uncle. And, you know, they didn’t have any idea that now their great, great nieces and nephews are being raised in a somewhat similar fashion and at a farmhouse.

We just don't even know when we're opening our home and and doing these things that maybe seem a little crazy, how many decades that we are impacting, how many generations. 

John: Like what do you leave behind? I will also say I think it's interesting you said what you've said twice now about your lessons, right? Like we send them off to band lessons and choir lesson and all these things. But, you know, this just kind of came to me as we were talking about, like, who's teaching them the life lessons. You know, that's the grandparents, right? Like, you probably think about your great aunt and great uncle. 

They were probably also giving you an education that you didn't even know you needed. 

So when we are not bringing our kids around that previous generation, are they missing those lessons, those rich history lessons of, hey, I've lived the life, don't make this mistake, do make this mistake. We want to teach them. We're so busy in this culture, I think oversaturating our kids with swim lessons and football team  and, you know.I know my niece and nephew, they are involved in every activity in America. And I asked my sister sometimes I'm like, when do they just, like, chill? When are they around grandma and grandpa? Who's teaching them the life lessons? 

Ginny: Right. Peter Gray called it a careerist approach in childhood which is that the whole point of childhood is to get into the ivy league school. In “There’s No Such Thing as Bad Weather,” Linda McGurk says “You can have a good life without an Ivy League education.” You know, and it's just a reminder.

All of these other things are so impactful, you know. Even just the fact that we would go to a home that had no toys. A thing I’ve thought about a lot over the years is that well, how much do my kids really need? 

I'm really excited for the resources that you have coming out. It's obviously very needed. 

We were talking a little bit about this concept of going outside when you don't like going outside or, you know, planning these outdoor vacations as a family and just kind of dreading it. Let's talk about that a little bit. 

John: OK, so like let's talk about that. So I am not a super outdoorsy person. Melissa is. You've met Melissa. You know her. She loves getting outside and she runs for fun. I don't understand that. I'm like, “Are you being chased by a bear?” You went 13 miles. For what reason? I mean, don't get me wrong, I will run a Disney race, because I like the metal at the end. And so sometimes it's fun to do, but I don't, you know, go outside. Melissa's like, “Let's go to the beach” or “Let's go to the mountains.”

And the beach to me is like, why am I going to get sand all over myself and the car? There is a pool at your house. I'll go to a pool. Thank you. And you know, and then the mountains, it's like, OK, well, we have to pack up and we have to do all this. And then I have to drive us there and there's six of us so we don't fly anywhere because it's too expensive. And so let's drive. And so now we're in the car for fifteen hours and in my head, I've already talked myself out of going outside and it's everything from the full vacation to like, oh, I could go on a bike ride with the kids. Like we bought bikes during covid like us and half of America. I went to find them and they were like, I mean, I think I spent like, jeez, Ginny, this is terrible. But I think I spent like a thousand dollars on bikes. And so we bought these bikes and we rode the bikes like three times. And now I'll come home and Melissa will be riding a bike. And thank God Joey is six foot five like me so he rides my bike, else it wouldn't get any use.

I have this grand idea that we were going to start being the bike riding family because everyone was. And then it was like, yeah, I don't really like doing this. Like, it's hot and like I'm sweating and someone's already complaining because they fell off their bike. And so then that becomes the whole thing. 

And so I just don't like being outside. I take a step on the trail, right? Like we get there, we got to North Carolina a couple of weeks ago. We had to go to North Carolina to look at some sites for some different events that we're talking about. And so one of the days we went to hike to a waterfall. And I was like, even in the car there, I'm like, OK, I'll sit in the car, I'll check email. Well, then I get to the parking lot and there's no service. 

So I'm like, this is terrible. But in my mind, I wasn't going to go. But of there's nothing to do. So I'm like, well, I guess now I'm going to hike up to a waterfall. And so I did. And then I got there and you get on the trail, you take that first step and you kind of breathe it all in. And it's like, oh, this is actually invigorating. 

Ginny: There is something scientific actually about moving water. It has to do with the ions in the air. And it really does something for you. 

John: It really does. Like I mean, I don't understand all that scientifical stuff, but you feel it. And we hiked up and it was probably, I don't know, forty five minutes up and then I lay on a rock at the bottom, like one of those huge boulder rocks. And it has to be really huge because I laid on it, you know, and I'm a huge guy. And so I laid on this boulder rock and I just watched and you know, the little ones and Melissa and a couple others, they climbed up higher and like I laid there and then Maddiey, our 13 year old, she kind of hung out with me a little bit. And, you know, it was great to just be in nature and take your shoes off and wade through the water. And, you know, you're going to understand this and maybe you can explain it to me. Like I was reading this thing about grounding. 

Ginny: It’s electrical. I don't know the ins and outs of it. There's something about it that makes you feel better. 

John: Yes. So like, you know, Sherry Seligson. So Sherry and I were in Ohio. And we just at a homeschool conference together and I dropped Kathy off at the airport and Sherry and I had like three hours to kill. And so we said, you know what, let's go to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, of course, because you have to because you're in Ohio. And then we were out. We could walk down from the Hall of Fame and there's this big open field and she goes, take your shoes off. She's like, just take your shoes off and stand on the grass. And now she's a biologist, she understands it. She's like, just stand in the grass. And I did. And I was like, wow, this is great. 

And then what's crazy is. Then I started thinking about when I'm at home, like I'll be at a meeting and I'll be starting to get like, OK, come on or whatever, like I'll be like, you know, and I'm on I'm on my headphones and I'll go outside and I'll pace. Barefoot, and it was like, calming me down, and I always thought it was the pacing that was probably calming me down and now I'm like, was it the grounding? This energy exchange? 

So I think the thing is I say I hate being outside. I don't. I hate planning to be outside. 

Ginny: Yeah. I think there's something to that. I mean, the whole thing is very unknown. You don't really know what's going to happen when you're there. So it almost feels like a gamble. But in all of our years of adventuring outside, we only really had one bad experience. We just ended up going home. It was just too cold and windy. The kids were crying. I was with a girlfriend, and it was in the winter here in Michigan.

But of all of the adventures that we've had, you don't know what it's going to be until you get there. In fact, yesterday we went to the apple orchard. We're up in Michigan. So apple orchards are everywhere. It's apple season. I love that. We've probably been to the apple orchard seventy five, one hundred times. I mean, we've been a lot. And my kids are starting to kind of be like apples again? You know, we've already been a couple of times this year.

But just yesterday we were out picking apples and it had just stormed. There was nobody else out there, just us and my parents. And we saw a mouse run across, you know, run across from one side to the other. Never seen that before. Hundred times you've been to the apple orchard. And she's got three babies and she's nursing these little babies and they're down in the grass.

And I just thought that's kind of how it is. It's like you don't really know what you're going to see or what the experience will be like, but you have this sort of trust that it's going to be something. It's going to be something that you remember. It's going to be something that makes you feel better. And so you sort of put in the work on this blind trust. And, you know, I mean, based on my prior experiences, it's probably going to be worth it.

And I don't really like going outside either, I think that's probably a misnomer. I went outside and thought it was crazy at the beginning, to go outside for any length of time. I want to just play the piano. I mean, I have a goal for it because I think for me it's hard to do. And I have goals for things that are hard. And it's not easy. It's a lot of work. There's mosquitoes and it's hot or cold. You know, wherever you are, there are these things that impede what you want to do. 

When you step back and you realize how it hits every facet of development for kids, it helps parents. It helps us connect, I think, because there's so many sensory experiences that help us remember those things. And so when you ask people about their childhood memories, a lot of them are outdoors because there's so many elements. You’re hearing and you're smelling and you're seeing and you feel it, you know, so you remember those things. And so we can have these foundational pillars of memories that have happened in the outdoors that no one can take from us. Those always be there as these moments of connection. 

We're wrapping up here in a minute. Can you tell us, John, for people who are interested about Celebrate Kids and Ignite the Family and Dr. Kathy Koch’s books, where can they find more information? Where can they find her books in those sorts of things? 

John: Sure. So Celebratekids.com is our website. It is in the midst of a remodel, so it'll look a lot better by December 1st. But it is full of resources. We have over a thousand blog posts we have. Dr. Kathy has a podcast called Encouraged to Celebrate Kids, which has great information. We have our Ask a Child questions. If you follow us on social media, you get those. We have a newsletter that goes out weekly and then for Ignite the Family we'll have a newsletter that's starting. We are also starting a podcast over there and doing some video stuff. So Celebratekids.com is the best place to start.

I tell people it's kind of like Gap Inc. is Banana Republic, Old Navy, all of it. On our new website at the top bar you can pick Kathy Koch, you can pick Ignite the Family. We own the Picture Smart Bible, which is a great resource, the Bible.

We're here to walk the parenting journey and the family journey with parents. And so also email us, you know, you can email Kathy any time. You can email me, john@celebratekids.com. We have a team of people that we work with. So if we don't know the answer to something, we reach out. We're all about connecting to the experts and connecting to the people that know what they're talking about. And so that's what we want to do. And so we want to be a resource to you as a family. 

Ginny: One of the best resources, I think is your newsletter, because it comes weekly, it comes to you without you having to reach out for it. And you guys have a really high open rate. People really get a lot out of your newsletter. So that would be a great thing for people to sign up for. And then her books obviously are on your website as well. 

OK, so, John, I'm going to ask you one final question here. Can you tell us a favorite outdoor childhood memory of yours?

John: My favorite outdoor childhood memory. So, can I be like 18? 

OK, so I love the desert. I love the desert landscape. When I was 18. This is so weird. When I was 18, my grandmother died and I went to the funeral and we went to the Grand Canyon because she lived in Arizona. And so we went to the Grand Canyon and everyone was kind of over in one section. And I went and I sat down on the ledge, not like over the ledge, like on the back from the ledge, because I have a little bit of a height issue. But I sat there and it was like peace and calm to just sit there and look at this vast, amazing structure that God created. This is the water moving through the land. And just to know that His hand was in all of it and it gave me a peace in the midst of this.

My grandmother was just an amazing woman. She wore rainbow socks because she said they matched everything. Like that was her spirit, right? Like that was who she was. So to see that and to be able to kind of go, you know what this is God like this is this is good is a really great you know, for me, that's a really I connect that to the land that I was. And of course, I was raised like I went to a farm and I did all those things. So there's probably lots of memories there. But that is what stands out when you say favorite, like just knowing that there was a purpose, you know, that God created this whole. Structure and seeing the vastness of it and how big it is, yeah, it kind of all happened in one moment. 

Ginny: Well, John, I really appreciate your time. I really appreciate what you're doing with the kids and with families. I know that what you're doing has impacted our family already. Dr. Cook and all that you guys are doing is impacting so many families around the world. So thank you for that. Thank you for your time here. And I'm looking forward to sharing more about family camping and all the things that are coming up as well here in the future. 

John: I think it's going to be so much fun. Thank you. Ginny, you have a great day.