Technology Training Wheels - Intentionally Introducing Technology in Steps

Ginny: Hey, I'm Ginny Yurich and welcome to The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast. I have Anne Marie with me today from Gabb Wireless and I’m super excited because we absolutely adore our Gabb phone (get $10 off your phone or watch with code “1000HOURSOUTSIDE” ). It is the perfect first phone for kids and I also think it’s a great phone for adults. We’re going to be talking about phone usage today. Gabb also has an awesome smartwatch. ($10 off with code “1000HOURSOUTSIDE” ) So we’ll be talking about all sorts of things today, like technology and kids. I’m so thrilled to have you here, Anne. Could you tell us what you do at Gabb Wireless and how you ended up there? What was your journey to get to where you're at right now?

Anne Marie: Absolutely. Well, thanks for having me. I am a mother of four, first. My kids range in ages from six to sixteen, so we are in the trenches of kids and tech and figuring parenting out. And so I actually found Gabb Wireless because I was looking for an option for my own son. My oldest child was asking for the iPhone and I knew I didn't want to hand one over, but I thought, well, perhaps if there was a phone with parental controls, maybe we could do that. And so we gave him an iPhone that did have parental control.

But what we found just even a couple of months in is that we lost the battle of him being behind the screen. And so I did some research, found Gabb.

We gave him the Gabb and it changed our family forever.

Then I came knocking on the door and said, “Wow, I believe in this product so much that I'd very much like to be a part of what you're doing.” So I'm glad I've been there a year. I run public relations and really I just talk to parents about different and better options and being that face for the tech solution for their family. 

Ginny: I love that. I love simple things that can change our life.

What a statement about a phone and technology.

I'm going to throw a little disclaimer out there. I think that some of the topics we talk about may be a little sensitive. So if you have little kids around, this might be a good one to read the transcript or throw some headphones on. We will be delicate and dance around some things but there might be a little bit more adult topics in this conversation because that's kind of where we're at with technology. 

I want to tell you a story, Anne Marie. I used to be a piano teacher. I don't do it anymore because our life is a little too crazy. But I love piano and I’ve played since I was four and I've taught dozens and dozens of students over the years.

Just a couple of years ago this little girl who was in kindergarten. So she was five years old and I’d had her as a student for a couple of months, and then it was the holiday break. She came back from the holidays and she said, “I got a Fitbit for Christmas and I'm pretending that it's my phone when I go to school.” And it was so impactful to me because I thought about how all these pressures are starting. There's so much pressure and I remember peer pressure when I was in school. I felt like it's enormous then. And now there's this pressure for technology. And so I wanted to ask what's been your experience with that? What do you tell parents? Does the Gabb phone bridge that gap a little bit for children who are really feeling that immense pressure?

Anne Marie: So technology isn't going away. And so, of course, this child is growing up in this digital age. She is experiencing what we didn't, which is as you grow and you mature, you get a phone. So to her that Fitbit is like a badge of honor, that she's now mature.

But what she's missing and what she doesn't know, and as a parent we do know, is the dangers that happen when you give technology too soon. And so that is exactly why Gabb exists, because it allows tech and steps to occur. 

We’ve gone through teaching our kids how to ride a bike. We start with the tricycle and then we take off the training wheels and we work through that process. For swimming we don't drop a child in the ocean, we teach them with lessons. And that is exactly what we've done here at Gabb. We're giving parents options to then teach their child how to be responsible and be healthy citizens as adults because we didn't experience it. This is a new thing for us as a parent. And so this journey is not only new for our generation, but it's just a new world that we're trying to master. And so that's why Gabb has laid out the steps and given the tools for parents to succeed.

Ginny: I love that. And so this is a solution for parents that are feeling that immense pressure because their kids are feeling the pressure. 

I have two different phones here. Our son has used the Gabb phone. He just turned 13. So this Gabb one is his and then this iPhone is mine. They look the same. Are parents saying that the Gabb phone is good enough, you know, especially for starting out? The phone is checking that box for the kid to have something.

Anne Marie: Yeah, our phones have all of the essentials and not any of the junk. And so it's perfect. First the child starts to learn how to text and how to have proper cell phone etiquette. And they're learning how to calendar. They're learning all of these essential tools in a way that they're able to understand rather than giving them a phone that has all sorts of different side doors, back doors, traps that then lead to very harmful things.

As a parent, I'm very aware of who my kids are with. And interestingly enough, when you give your child the phone, you give away that protection because there's no protection even with a phone that has parental controls. There are things that kids are getting their hands on that frankly, they're not quite ready for. You can know and be completely confident that this Gabb phone was built entirely with safety in mind. And when you give them the phone, it gives them all the necessities that they need. 

Ginny: I love your analogy of everything as a learning process, everything is growth. A phone is a tool that our kids will ultimately end up having, most likely. And so to introduce it in stages and to teach, like you said, the different etiquette and things along the way is ideal.

I can just picture myself being a kid and that pressure, you know, that all the other kids have one. And so what an awesome solution for parents. I think it's fantastic.

I want to tell you another story. So talking about sensitive topics, I used to also teach in the public school system. We homeschool now, so I'm home with my kids, but I taught for four or five years and I taught high school. And then my last year, I was the math coordinator for our entire district. And so I was in and out of these different classrooms and making sure that everyone's classroom aligned with the other classroom and standards and things like that.

One night I was at a parent meeting. And it was for the seventh graders and I was there to talk about the math curriculum, but the police were also there and they were there to talk about the seventh graders who were being intimate and videotaping it on their flip phones and then sending it around to all the classmates. And so this would have been in 2007 or 2008, no smartphones yet. And it impacted me quite a bit because those are things you can't take back, you know. And I think all the parents there were like, it's not my kid, right? But even if it's not your kid, everyone knows it's going on. Everyone knows who's involved. I think we have to be realistic about the dangers that are lurking with phone usage, and so I'm sure that's something that you're familiar with.

I saw on your website you talk about how kids are in digital danger. So can you talk a little bit about that?

Anne Marie: You know, not only are they in digital danger, but they are needing open communication to understand what digital danger is. And they don't even understand, as you said, what they're getting into.

Phone companies, not only phone companies, but apps and all sorts of different technology, they lure kids in the business of danger. They're monitoring them step by step, warning them to become more addicted and more addicted. And so as a parent, you have to have that communication. Sure, it's uncomfortable at times to think your child may be exposed to nudes. It's uncomfortable to think that they are in danger. But just as you would talk to your child about putting on a seatbelt because of it, because of the potential of getting in a car accident, you need to talk about these dangerous situations because they will have them identified enough to know that I talk to parents and they say, oh, my my child is homeschooled. They will not be exposed. 

Ginny: You just don't know. As far as the nudes, I have this vivid memory of being with a friend’s kids. She had kids that are a decade older than mine and they were teenagers while mine were still little. And we were driving somewhere. We were talking about dating. They were in high school. And so, you know, “Are you dating anyone?” or “Who do you like at your school?” or that sort of thing? And this girl, you know, she was 14 or 15, she said, “You know, every single guy asks you to send nudes.” And I had never heard that word. I didn't even know. I was like, what is the word? What are you talking about? Can you spell it?

And I thought, what a different life experience for these kids to have those pressures. And this is what everyone's talking about. This is the pressure that you feel because maybe this other girl is doing that or this other guy. We really like those Good Pictures, Bad Pictures, books. 

Anne Marie: Yes. We've used those in my household as well. They do give parents tools for their child. So they have this tool that when someone asks for a nude, they know, OK, my mom asked me about this. Like, this is what's going to happen. It's uncomfortable, sure. But parents have to have these uncomfortable conversations.

Ginny: Yes. They give you a tool if pornography pops up, which is to just turn and walk away. Don't try and turn it off. Don't try, because then other things are going to pop up. You have to have these practical tools because no one taught those to us because it wasn't an issue. Right now we're in new territory.

Your website says Gabb users have 100% less chance of exposure to mature content, because there is zero Internet, social media and games. That's bold. One hundred percent less chance because their phones only text and call. 

I love that you say kids have a right to be protected. So one of the things I read on your site is that kids are being exposed to pornography by age 11. Do you know what the age used to be? Is it kind of dropping lower and lower and lower? 

Anne Marie: You know, it is because parents are giving phones to their children younger and younger. So sadly, that statistic does continue to lower. 

Ginny: Those things can have a lifelong impact.

Anne Marie: Parenting is exhausting. There are moments that you cannot monitor all the time, and if you give them a phone, they'll be in their room, they'll be on the bus, as you said, and they will be exposed. And if you haven't given them the tools, then how can they thrive?

Ginny: These are really important conversations, Anne Marie. 

For whatever reason, we're really protective of our kids in other ways. You know, it's like everyone is wearing knee pads and elbow pads and helmets and wrist pads when they go skateboarding. But for whatever reason, we're dancing around this topic of digital danger and the consequences are very real and long lasting.

So I really like how you guys put that. It’s important to talk about how technology affects the brain and the body. So one of the things that I noticed about our Gabb phone is that it's just sitting there. It's just sitting on the counter. How is excessive phone usage affecting the brain and the body? 

Anne Marie: Well, as an adult, we know clearly when we've been behind our screen what it does to us. Can you imagine a child that can't self regulate? There are so many issues, especially with coming out of covid and quarantining kids. They are experiencing the highest levels ever of anxiety and depression. And people wonder where are we going wrong? 

Where we've gone wrong is kids are living behind the screen. So I love that you said that your phone is just there to connect and protect and that it allows your child to live outside of the screen and find confidence out playing and being with people, because that's truly how how kids learn to regulate themselves so that they do notice going down the road when they've been behind that screen for too long. 

Ginny: Yes. So that they can notice in themselves the differences that they feel. So we do 1000 Hours Outside thing, right? 

Anne Marie: Yes. And we love what you do. It's really great.

Ginny: Thank you. Our journey of shifting from programs when my kids were really young. We were doing programs, programs, and it was exhausting and it didn't feel like the value was there in terms of the amount of work and effort needed to get little kids to different programs. And so we switched to this open ended play lifestyle. 

At some point I added up how much time we were spending outside because I had read in a book from Dr. Scott Sampson that kids play outside for an average of four to seven minutes a day, but they're on screens for four to seven hours. It's this huge imbalance. And so I added up how much time we are getting outside. And it was around the number of screen time hours the average kid gets in a year.

This is a bringing back a balance thing. But it was really eye opening because I thought, OK, well, if kids are on screens for a thousand hours, twelve hundred hours a year and we were just outside for a thousand hours or twelve hundred hours, I could visually see and remember what kids were missing. What would my kids have missed if they had if we had replaced all of those hands on moments with screens? Instead of all of these picnics and playing at the park and walks around the block.

One of the things I really, really love about Gabb is that you advocate for life. You have the Gabb Life movement to get to what matters most with safe technology solutions. So tell me about this Gabb Life movement.

Anne Marie: The Gabb Life Movement was started by Collin Kartchner, who rallied Gabb. He was a big believer. He was the one that really motivated us to create this movement of a better life than behind the screen. When kids look back at their childhood or even when we look back as an adult, we look back at our childhood, we don't ever think about the time we spent looking at a computer screen. We think about the stars, hikes, the dinner conversation, that eyeball to eyeball moment of connection that happens when you just have the discipline to turn the phone off. We have to set some sort of an example so that our children learn that truly it's that connection and living that life outside the screen that provides true happiness. 

Ginny: Yes, it does. I did an interview a couple of weeks ago with this Dr. Chris Winter. He just wrote a book about sleep. And this is interesting because we talked about serotonin. Serotonin turns into melatonin - that helps you sleep at night so you can get a big boost of serotonin in the morning just by being exposed to sunlight, which I think is really cool. But he talked about all the other things that really boost serotonin. It's like soup night with your friends or, you know, it's all these just simple connections and just getting back to how powerful those things are. I think it takes a lot of intention but it’s worth it.

Anne Marie: One thing that we do to promote living life outside the screen is we have a series of contests for our customers. So a child may be really great at flips on the trampoline, they could enter a contest and then be celebrated for that. We celebrate them. We celebrate that they are living and experiencing a better life.

Ginny: I love that. Kids will remember that. I think that internally they know, even though they're drawn to the screens and there's video games and all these things, I think that they will take this with them into adulthood. These were the best times of my life, you know, these certain accomplishments. And I think it has to be celebrated. I think 20 years ago, 30 years ago, no one was talking about how much time kids are playing outside and how much free time they get. But these days, because it's so hard, culturally and because there's so much pervasive technology, I think anything that celebrates real life hands on is affecting generations. 

Anne Marie: I agree. It's really as they grow, if you're able to pinpoint and celebrate them. Then it just increases a desire for them to learn more and helps with that inner confidence.

When we took the iPhone away from my child, my oldest, and gave him the Gabb phone, I'm sure there was about five or six days where he pushed back. But in the end, he thanked me for giving him his life back. That Sparkle came back on. And even though we did have the parental controls in place, you just are so sucked into that world. And once you're able to just break away, then you realize there's a better life. 

Ginny: There's a documentary where they talk about how we are the product. All of our time. And so sucking us in, we become the product. That's why it's “free.” It's not really because our attention is what's being bought and sold. I think these are really important things to be aware of. And it’s good to talk to kids about all these things because they're going to be parents. Right? If you have a 16 year old and I have a 13 year old, you know, it could be in the next decade where they're going to be grappling with the same sort of things.

I think when we model for our kids and also when we talk about things like here's why we got you a Gabb phone, here's why we chose this, let's talk about the why, because then it gives them tools for when they become parents. 

I wrote this down from your website because I really like it. The more time kids spend living beyond the screen, the less time they will have to sit in front of a screen. Which is just great, I mean, our best days are the days when we run out of time for technology, and that's sort of what we're trying to do, is to fill it up, fill it up with what we want it to be filled up and then have that left over time be for technology as opposed to the other way around. If people wanted to join in on these Gabb Life contests, where do they find them? 

Anne Marie: So they go to Gabbwireless.com, and it will have a link there and we're just getting ready to launch a whole new series, and they're going to be the best yet. We had so much success last year with contestants from all over the country. And this year is just going to be bigger and better.

Ginny:That's great. I love that. I love that it came from Collin. What a legacy.

Anne Marie: What a legacy. Really awesome. We feel him every day and we are wanting to make him proud because of what he stood for. He would preach about exactly what we're set to do.

Ginny: “Stop giving smartphones to kids.” He said it over and over again. That's the simplest five or six words. And that would change our world, right? 

I was telling my in-laws this morning that I'm doing this podcast with Gabb Wireless and my father-in-law says, I want a phone like that. I've had a bunch of adults message me and say, I bought one. I bought one for myself. 

Our 1000 Hours Outside journey is kind of geared toward kids. But then a lot of times adults pick up on it. They're doing it on their own. They're doing it with their dog or whatever. So tell me about the shift toward adults who want to have a simpler option, who don't want to be addicted to their phones.

Anne Marie: Well, there's this movement called Gone Gabb and people Go Gabb over the weekend. I have a Gabb. I Go Gabb over the weekend so I can unwind and really connect with my kids. And it’s not only adults who are doing it.

We have Max, who actually oversees our contest. He's in college. He's in the last year of college. And he came to Gabb because he is a Gabb user and he loved it so much. It's interesting, our company keeps growing because of customers that love our product. He's in his 20s. And he wanted to have the discipline to focus on school. He's working full time. He's married, and he wanted to spend his time on things that really matter. So you're right. It is something that appeals to parents as well.

Ginny: You guys say it's a perfect first phone. That's part of your terminology. But then my father-in-law was saying that it's like rolling back in time. In some circumstances people are really wanting that and needing that. Like, hey, wait, hold on. Let's back up a little bit. So he was super into it.

And like I said, I've gotten a lot of messages from parents who've said I bought it for myself or just not even parents, just adults, you know.

I love that there's so much practical information on your website, practical ideas. It says the average teenager spends nine hours a day connected to social media. So have some limits. This is how we've always done technology, which is we have a “yes time” and a “no time.” They want to watch cartoons. Sure, on Saturday mornings. That's how it was for us, because that's the only time they were on. What are your thoughts on limit setting?

Anne Marie: We limit them in our home. It's worked for us. I think it's important. As I said, I have a 16 year old. He'll be out of my home in a few short years. And I want him to be able to self regulate. And I think the best way to teach him is to give him limits. I want him to be a happy, healthy adult. So how do I do that? I limit and teach him now because soon enough he'll be out.

Ginny: I found a whole list of ideas on your website, easy low prep activities for kids like running through the sprinkler, jumping on the trampoline, paper airplanes. I’m bringing it up because I think that it's really neat that you don't just sell a product. You sell a lifestyle. You really are caring about people having a full life. I really liked all the ideas that I found on the site. You talked about friendships on there, the idea that kids don't need 842 friends. It said, you know, they just need a couple of really good friends and that as parents we can help them facilitate friendships.

Anne Marie: That's healthy. Even with my own children, I am having to have this conversation with them. I am personally very social. I love friends, I always have. But it's that core group of friends that you trust and you have that constant connection with a healthy, balanced connection that that adds to my life. It's not the nine hundred followers or whatever that may have. And to make that distinction between likes and real friendship and connection is very important because it gets mucky for someone that hasn't lived that. And again, that open conversation gives them the tools to bring them to an understanding because they don't get it. There is a different way to do this. They haven't processed real friends. 

Ginny: Right. This is a different thing than when we grew up. You just had your friends, right? And then you went home from school. But with these kids, they are connected all the time and everyone has followers and everyone has a certain amount of likes. And so there's a number to it. 

The Gabb website says to consider things like leave-phones-at-the-door party. I love that. And movie night, bowling, board games, cooking pizza, hosting a bonfire. I really think that. Parents are having to step in a little bit more than maybe they used to have to or step in differently.

Like when I was a kid, everyone played in the neighborhood. Well, that's not happening as much now. So I think as a parent, there's maybe a little more effort there. You know that you've got to help your kid plan the pizza party or you have to step in with some different ideas. But I think that there's a lot of value in that for the parent as well. I'm finding that with our group of friends we now have family friends. All the kids get together and the parents and it's very enriching. 

Anne Marie: We don't want to be overwhelming. It doesn't need to be overwhelming and it doesn't have to be very expensive. We have this list of different activities on our site as you said, that don't cost anything and it's really not a lot of work to set them up. Game night. Come on over and understand true and real lasting friendships. 

When you brought up the constant connection on social media, that's another I just wanted to backtrack a bit because of bullying on social media. It never leaves. They can bring home these harmful things that have happened and it's constant. So the nice thing is, if you make that connection between, this is a fake friend and this is a real friend. You have to talk them through that distinction. Otherwise it just becomes very, very confusing for a child and becomes a personal matter.

Ginny: It's interesting. I haven't thought about that too much. I remember being in seventh grade and we had this group of three friends and it was constantly switching where two were pairing off against one. Some days you had no friends and then it was just a mess. School drama. But you would come home from school and it was done or you would have a school break and you didn't have to deal with it for ten days or whatever. So that's an interesting part.

One of the things I read on your website was about not giving the smartphone power in your home. That's what this makes me think of. When the child has a smartphone, all of those situations come into your home and hold a lot of power. If they don't have the smartphone, then it's just like when we were kids, you come home and you leave those things there and you don't have to deal with them. That's a gift. 

We talk about parents leading by example.

Anne Marie: It's hard. I'm constantly monitoring my behavior because I can feel when I need to turn it off and turn it on. As the leader of my home, I need to be able to show them how to have healthy digital habits because they learn, as you know, by example. 

Ginny: Yes. This Gone Gabb thing could be a nights and weekends thing. If you have your phone, you have it for work. I think a lot of us do. We're doing a lot of work on our phones. But then if you set that aside and just switch to the other one, that's really that's an investment in your family. 

You know, it seems weird, right? Like would we have two phones? But, if that allows you to put one away and just be able to call your mom or text a friend or whatever, you're still available to your close knit social circle in your family. 

Anne Marie: Absolutely. We're seeing people buy the phone as a home phone so that when parents are away, they're still able to connect and feel protected. 

Ginny: Yes, actually, someone messaged me about that, too. They said because people don't have home phones anymore, a lot of times. So that's a great idea for a home phone. 

I read on the website it's never too late to start, and I really loved that. I think that's a powerful message that we always have the capacity to make a change. And I think that when we make changes, it's a good model for our kids because their life is not static. No one's life is static. Everyone's life is all over the place. And so part of modeling how to do life is to say, look, this isn't working. Let's make a change. Do you guys get stories a lot about people who have made a change?

Anne Marie: Yes, especially with the first child, that guinea pig, parents don't know. I didn't know. I thought parental controls would be enough. It's my story. It's told time and time again because parents can relate. They just didn't know there was another option out there. And so they and they think, oh, parental controls would be enough. But what they find is it's just not for that first phone. And they've given their child their first two children, perhaps an iPhone, and they've seen the damage that has occurred. And so they are completely drawing a line in the sand for that third child. And they say, absolutely no. My two older children have been so impacted by an unlimited phone or or whatever, a phone that didn't have restrictions on it. Then they say, you're right, there is a better way and I'm going to do it. So we're all on this journey of parenting. And sometimes we learn the hard way. And sometimes we just didn't know there was another option. 

It's never too late.

Ginny: So tell us, Anne-Marie, about the two main products you have. This is the phone. My personal experience is that it's fantastic. So tell parents how it works, network, all that kind of stuff. 

Anne Marie: Yes. So we're our own network. And so parents know that it's that it's month to month and they can just try it out. It's great. It has fourteen central apps, calling, texting, calendar, calculator, camera. So it's all of the essentials, none of the junk. It's under one hundred dollars. It's such a great product and it's peace of mind and it was built with safety in mind. We don't track, we don't sell information. It is 100 percent safe. 

Ginny: It holds up well, it's got a great design and our kids have been very happy with it and I know a lot of people have. It's a really great price. I've got a discount code through 1000 Hours Outside. Get $10 off a watch or a phone with promo code “1000HOURSOUTSIDE” .

So that's the phone. And then the smart watch is new-ish, right? 

Anne Marie: I have got one right here. My six year old has one and my 11 year old has one. We love it. It is so good. It's that perfect first phone for that younger age. And it is fun because the kids can run and play and Go Gabb and live that life, right? 

There's an S.O.S. button. If they fail, if they're in trouble. That will then link to the parent's phone and notify them that they're in trouble. There's ten different contacts the parent chooses from the app on the parent's device.

Then the child can play the Gabb Go game. And I use that word loosely because it's the only game that you can play by living and the parent assigns tasks to the child to help them be motivated and stay active. And once they have accomplished that goal, then they get coins to then feed their animals. So it's a fun way for parents to teach their child the importance of an active lifestyle. So it has fun colors, the band and the connection is great. We have these amazing covers on the watches, so if they fall and trip it won't harm the actual watch.

If you're not quite ready to give them that safe smartphone then the watch is a great solution, dropping them off at school. So they have it. Another great feature is it has GPS and so parents can check in on their child. If they've reached a certain destination, it can alert the parent through the My Gabb app on their device that they've arrived within that safe zone. It’s set up for parents to feel connected to their child. Yet also with that peace of mind that their child is safe and they're not going to be exposed to things that they really aren't ready for. 

Ginny: This is the training wheels approach. We really have to look at it as a technology teaching tool. How are we going to teach safe technology habits? How are we going to teach a balance in technology habits to our kids? What an awesome product. And I think everything is priced so well and so high quality. So I'll put some links there for people that are interested in looking. $10 off with “1000HOURSOUTSIDE” . If people are wanting to find Gabb or more about Gabb life, about the products, where can they go? 

Anne Marie: At Gabbwireless.com you will find articles and all sorts of educational information to help you parent. We are the safe tech solution and we want to help you every step of the way. It's exhausting. It's a hard journey. But if you have this knowledge that there is a better way and there's peace of mind in that, that we will be there as you navigate this really sometimes murky digital journey with your family and even the knowledge that you're joining in with a bunch of other families.

Ginny: I think that that's powerful, too. You know, to hear your story and it's similar to a lot of people's stories, which is we tried it, it didn't work. We changed course. And, you know, a couple of weeks into it, our son said thank you. To have that power in numbers and to know that you're not alone in dealing with these really pertinent issues. Can we end with a favorite childhood “Gabb Life” moment of yours? Usually I ask people about a favorite outdoor memory of theirs as a child, but what was a childhood passion or favorite life beyond the screen moment of yours?

Anne Marie: Oh, boy, this is fun. So I as I mentioned earlier in the podcast, I love people and I've always loved people and I would say from a very small age, and my mom probably would say four, I made friends with the neighbors and I would always go and knock on their door and they'd come out on the porch and we'd sit and have a little chat. So I'd make the rounds and my mom would kind of watch from the porch just to, you know, just making sure that I was safe and well. But again, I just loved connection from a young age and have been a big advocate of going out there and making friendships happen because there really is no better reward in life than that true friendship, whether it's with someone much older than you or of your same age. But there's just something magical about building friendship. 

Ginny:  I love that and here you are an adult really taking how you were as a child transferring into your entire life? And so that's a really good reminder for parents, that when kids have time to delve into the things that they're passionate about, that's usually setting them up for long term success because you don't know what's coming. And we tend to sort of stay the way we're bent. So, Anne-Marie, thank you so much for your time. Thank you for your inspiration and for these tools that you've given parents and even the inspiration to think about the tools, to think that we should be thinking about the tools and how we should be approaching technology with our kids. I really appreciate your time and look forward staying connected and seeing what you guys are doing.

Anne Marie: Thank you. I hope that your listeners know that they not they are not alone in this journey. It's rough and it's hard, but there are solutions out there. And I hope that some of the ones that some of the different options we've talked about will resonate with them as well. There are some different solutions and we're there for them.

Ginny: [Yep, I love it. Thanks, Anne-Marie.

Anne Marie: Thank you.